Kim, LeeQuod. Like I said when each of you showed me your respective pairs of pet female bovines: you’re both two-kined --- and that’s no bull. // P.S. Apologies to Regis for my adding nothing pertinent to the thread. A rare slip.

Well Lee, arguably Ancient Greece invented science and it certainly invented the systematizing of Reason(they did not invent Reason itself). Therefore making allusions to them is not inappropriate. It also use to be almost instinctive for educated people, don't you know, old chap.

(reinsert tongue) Regis, Regis, Regis - next you'll be telling us there's a peer-review conspiracy against anti-evolutionists, just like that nutcase Ben Stein did. Questioning even one part of science is a slippery slope! For shame! // Jason, thou varlet!! How durst thou malign the integrity of my bosom friend Ben! Surely he wouldst have naught to say defensively here (OK, gotta drop the Old English bit lest I lapse into extreme anachronism) even though the emails in question were created very close to home for him. And for the record, I wasn't jesting at Ben or anyone else in particular except my former pre-Christian self, who did indeed hope to see Science (and her twin sister Reason) triumphing over religion, politics and all other forms of corrupt human endeavor. But I do doff my cap in astonied admiration, sir; only you could find a way to bring Ancient Greece into this discussion. (remove tongue - maybe...) // Kim, amen and amen - would that many more of us could have one-tenth of Rolley's gifts and sensitivity and wit. I myself am YARW - Yet Another Rolley Wannabe.

What would be the benefit to proudly call it charlatanry in the face of the increasing weather changes and disasters? What use are the millions the corrupt could save by delaying corrective mindsets and actions, besides the point that most of these irresponsible human beings are past 50 and on their way out anyway? What's the taste of the joy of 'being right and telling like it is to those liberals' if we're all affected in the end? Why is it SO EASY TO JUST NOT CARE anymore for others, having these people the means to move their conservative and selfish followers? Let's hope that these peoples' grandsons and great-grandsons can act morally and clean up their family name in time.

Lee--I guess I'llhave to be the bearer of bad news, at least for today. This WSJ commentary about what the latest shannigans tell us about the highly vaunted process of peer review and expert consensus, means that neither Science nor the State can be trusted as our Savior. Sorry, my friend, it's a bitter pill, I know, but it's time for real men to "man up," as they say! http://online.wsj.com/article/best_of_the_web_today.html#printMode

`Tis foul climate they claim // `Tis noble goal they say, // reduce carbon footprints // which saves, // saves the earth, most precious, // but `tis really power and money me thinks // Shall we dance to the sound of 'tis manipulation // which is a most profitable sort // from the most noble and glorious of all // the eco-scientists, // who's peerly scientific review prove that 'tis // lovely power and money, oh power and money! // Thanks to the lyrics of "Molasses to Rum," from the musical 1776.

Before Ben W says something defensive one needs must point out that this is a comment on the fact that the human tendency toward corruption is not removed by the scientific process rather then on the scientific process itself. As a side note, it is also a comment on something I have long suspected; that giving to much prestige to science is eventually bad for science as science. Just like giving to much prestiege to arms eventually hurt Sparta as a military power.

(insert tongue into cheek) Well, thanks a *lot*, Regis! My whole worldview was based on the idea that scientists were all noble, apolitical creatures, and therefore anything like enterprise corruption - particularly in the hallowed peer review process - was impossible. Now, by posting this, you've caused me to have doubts about the infallibility of science. If you keep blogging about this kind of fraud, I might find myself losing my faith in mankind's ability to conquer the world intellectually, which would force me to trust God instead. I might even become one of those Christians who believe that scientific discovery is made possible by the grace of God, Who is therefore due praise that we can know anything at all. I could end up beginning my workday thanking God for what I know and for what I am about to discover. And as scientists we can't have any of **THAT**, can we?!? (remove tongue - for now)